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The world is flat... So what next? Talk Asia interview with Thomas Friedman
为什么世界是“ 平” 的?——CNN专访托马斯·弗里德曼
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Thomas, great to have you on the program today.
CNN特派员 安姿丽：托马斯，今天很高兴能邀请你到节目里来。
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Good to be here.
记者兼作家 托马斯·弗里德曼：我很高兴能上这个节目。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Now, you're one of America's leading opinion makers. Is there a sense of responsibility, do you think, that goes along with that? Or do you just say, "You know what? I'm gonna write what I like and you can take it or leave it?
CNN特派员 安姿丽：你是美国非常重要的意见领袖之一。你觉得这个身份会伴随着很大的责任吗?还是你只会这么说“反正我爱写什么就写什么，你们要接受就接受，不接受也随便你”？
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Well, the answer's really both. There's a huge sense of responsibility, you know, people will often come up and say, God, what's that like, to have that audience? Because I know that wide audience is out there, I wake up in the morning, after I've written a column, and I'm totally in agony. Did I get it right, you know? Did I say that exactly the way I wanted to say it? I agonize over every column， precisely 'cause I know it is gonna be read bya lot of people, and it's gonna be in Google, you know, forever. So, there is that sense of responsibility.
记者兼作家 托马斯·弗里德曼：其实两者都有。我的确会感受到一种庞大的责任感。常常有人问我说，老天，拥有那么多读者是什么感觉？正因为我知道自己有一大群读者，我写完一篇专栏之后早上醒来时心里都会挣扎痛苦，想着自己写对了吗？我是否……我有没有确定表达出我想说的话？我撰写每篇专栏都深陷痛苦，就是因为我知道有很多人会看，而且这些文章会永远摆在谷歌上。所以，确定会有种责任感。
But at the same time, you do have to take the attitude of, "This is what I think, this is why I think it; I'm not in a popularity contest; if you like it, great, if you don't like it, please don't throw a shoe, okay?" But, you gotta believe what you say and say what you think, you know, so...
不过，我也必须保持强硬的态度，“这是我的想法，这是我这么想的理由。我不是在参加人气竞赛，所以如果你喜欢我的观点，当然很好，但你如果不喜欢，那么，请不要丢鞋子，好吗？”总之，你必须确信自己说的话，也必须说出内心真正的想法，所以……
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:You've long traveled the planet investigating globalization. How do you think that the current economic state of things is going to affect it?
CNN特派员 安姿丽：你为了探究全球化的现象，花了很长一段时间走遍世界各地。你认为当前的经济形势对全球化会有什么影响？
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Well, you know, I wrote a book called The World Is Flat, and I wanna now apologize-I got it wrong. The current economic crisis tells me I got it wrong. The world is so much flatter than I thought. Who knew? Who knew that Iceland was a hedge fund with glaciers? Who knew that 15 British police departments would be depositing their funds in [an] Icelandic online saving account called ice-save.com? You couldn't make that up! Even I-who knew the world was flat-I didn't know it was that flat.
记者兼作家 托马斯·弗里德曼：你也知道，我写了一本书叫做《世界是平的》，现在我要道歉:我搞错了。当前的经济危机让我发现自己搞错了。世界比我想象的还要平坦得多。谁会知道？说会知道冰岛是个覆盖着冰山的避险基金？谁知道英国15个警察局会把基金存在 ice-save.com这个冰岛的在钱存款账户里？这种事情是编造不出来的!即便我早就知道世界是平的，却也没想到竟然有这么平。
And that's really what we've learned in this crisis. For me, that's the real revelation. I knew we were intertwined, I knew the world was flat, but what I've really learned is just how flat it's become. A minor variation in interest rates between Iceland and Britain, led all this money, you know to go from Great Britain to Iceland, of all places. So I think that's the real lesson here.
这就是我们在这场危机里学到的东西。对我来说，这才是真正的启发。我早就知道所有人都密不可分，也知道世界是平的，但我真正学到的是，世界竟然已变得这么平。冰岛对英国的利率才出现些微变动，就导致这么多钱从英国跑到冰岛，而不是到其他地方去。我认为这就是最重要的教训。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Your most recent book, Hot, Flat and Crowded, what is it precisely about that title that made you choose it?
CNN特派员 安姿丽：你最新的著作叫做《世界又热又平又挤》你为什么会挑选这个书名？
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:It's getting hotter, global warming; it's getting flatter, which is my metaphor for the rise of middle-classes all over the world that are consuming and producing like Americans now, with all the energy and natural resource implications that has. And we're in a world that's getting crowded, population-wise. When I look at these problems, what I see [are] incredible opportunities masquerading as insoluble problems.
记者兼作家 托马斯·弗里德曼：世界越来越热，全球变暖。越来越平，我用这个意象比喻中产阶级在世界各地兴起的现象，这些人的消费和生产方式都和现在的美同人一样，对能源与自然资源、造成的影响也相同。此外，就人口而言，我们的世界也越来越拥挤。这些问题在我眼中都是令人难以置信的机会，只不过表面上看来像是无法解决的问题而已。
Those opportunities are embedded for me in an escalated15 industrial revolution which I call ET-energy technology-the pursuit of abundant, cheap, clean, reliable electrons and molecules. And the country that owns ET, I believe, is gonna have the most energy security, national security, economic security, competitive industries, clean environment and global respect.
在我看来，这些机会都潜藏在一种不断扩大的工业革命当中，我称之为 ET能源科技——追求丰富、廉价、干净、可靠的电子与分子。我相信拥有 ET的国家就会拥有最高程度的能源保障、国家安全、经济稳定、富有竞争力的产业、洁净的环境，以及全球的尊重。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:What should we expect from you, in so far as tackling a new subject for your next book?
CNN特派员 安姿丽：我们对你该有什么期待呢?你下一本书会探讨什么新主题?
THOMAS FRIEDMAN, JOURNA LIST & AUTHOR:Well, I'm a big believer of "If you don't go, you don't know," you know, so, I... that's really my motto. I mean, I have the best job in the world. I get to be a tourist with an attitude. I get to go wherever I want, whenever I want, and I get to write whatever I want. It's a great job. I have the best job in the world. I mean, somebody has to have it. I've got it, and you don't, okay? And so, it's a great job.
记者兼作家 托马斯·弗里德曼：我深信这句话，“不到现场，就不可能知道。”这句话可以真是我的座右铭。我是说，我拥有世界上最棒的工作。我可以是个带着自身观点的游客。我想去哪里就去哪里，时间任我自己安排，而且可以写我自己想写的东西。这个工作很棒。我拥有全世界最好的工作。这个工作总是会落到某个人手上，刚好就被我拿到了，不是你，对不对?所以，这个工作确实很棒。
But, with it, as we said, it comes a lot of responsibility and I really write my columns by following my notes. I... Why am I here in Hong Kong? It's not because an editor told me to go to Hong Kong. It's because I was basically sitting in America and in America, right now-I'm normally traveling all the time-I haven't been traveling, 'cause America is the greatest show on Earth right now.
不过，就像我们说的，这个工作伴随着很大的责任，我的专栏文章其实都是按照笔记写的。我现在为什么在香港。不是因为某个编辑要我到香港来，而是因为我本来在美国——我平常几乎都在四处奔波一一但我在美国已经有好一阵子没有旅行了，因为美国现在就是全球最精彩的节目。
Between Barack Obama coming in and the financial crisis which we started, basically, I don't wanna go anywhere, all right? But I said, no, if I'm gonna go anywhere, I'm gonna go to China right now because we're not gonna get out of this without cooperating and working closely with China. And it's the G2, now. I mean, at the end of the day, it's gonna be Barack Obama and Hu Jintao. And it's very interesting, you know, when you think about it-Hu Jintao's second term overlaps，as president of China, almost perfectly with Barack Obama's first term. And I have a feeling these two guys are gonna get to know each other really well. I hope it'lI be for the benefie of both countries.
从奥巴马上任到这场金融危机的这段时间，我可是哪都不想去。但我心想，不对，如果我要到其他地方去，那我就要去中国。因为我们如果不和中国密切合作，就不可能摆脱这片泥沼。现在是 G2两大工业同了，我是说，归根究底，关键就在奥巴马和胡锦涛两人身上。说来很有趣，胡锦涛担任中国国家主席的第二任任期几乎和奥巴马的第一任完全重叠。我觉得他们两人一定会和对方很熟。希望这样的情况对两国都会有利。
I'm an optimist at heart, you know. I was in Israel，a couple of years ago, and um, the editor of the Haaretz Newspaper where my column runs in Israel, [we] had a dinner party, and I asked him what..., "Why do you guys run my column?" And he said, "Tom, it's 'cause you're the only optimist we have." But I do live by the motto that pessimists are usually right. Optimists are usually wrong, but all the great change in history was done by optimists. So, I'm gonna go down swinging with optimism.
我其实是个乐观主义者。我几年前到以色列去。在那里，我的专栏都登在《国土报》。那家报社的编辑举办了一场晚宴，我 问他，可你们为什么登我的专栏? "他说托马斯，因为你是我们唯一的乐观主义者。"但我的座右铭是:悲观主义者的观点通常 是正确的。乐观主义者通常会看走眼，但历史上所有的重大变革都是乐观主义者打造的结果。所以，我要抱着乐观的态度。
ANJALI RAO, CNN CORRESPONDENT:Thomas, it's been a real delight having you on this show, and enlightening to boot.
CNN特派员 安姿丽：托马斯，能够邀请你到节目来真是开心，也非常具有启发性。
