[00:00.00]As secretary of defense for both Presidents George W. Bush and Obama, Robert Gates oversaw critical moments in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. 
[00:10.06]He would emotionally address the troops in the field, but back home showed a stoic public face.
[00:15.81]Gates opens up about his frustration with the presidents he served 
[00:19.82]and the Congress he had to testify before in a new book, "Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War."
[00:26.86]He writes of one meeting in 2011 with Mr. Obama and General David Petraeus, who then commanded military forces in Afghanistan:
[00:35.33]Quote: "As I sat there, I thought the president doesn't trust his commander, can't stand Karzai, 
[00:41.61]doesn't believe in his own strategy and doesn't consider the war to be his. 
[00:46.30]For him, it's all about getting out" -- end quote.
[00:49.70]When it came to Congress, he writes -- quote -- "I would listen with growing outrage, 
[00:54.14]as hypocritical and obtuse American senators made all of these demands of Iraqi legislators and yet themselves could not even pass budgets" -- end quote.
[01:04.65]We expect to interview the former defense secretary next Tuesday.
[01:08.05]But, for now, we turn to Washington Post staff writer Greg Jaffe, who covered Robert Gates and has read an advance copy of the book.
[01:16.41]Greg Jaffe, it's good to have you with us. Thank you.
[01:18.50]Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[01:19.69]So you did get the book early. And you covered him for his entire five years under both presidents. 
[01:25.12]What mainly stands out in this book?
[01:27.75]Well, the thing that stood out to me most was just the emotional toll that the wars took on him and that the casualties took on him.
[01:34.68]You really get an unvarnished sense of that. And we could see it in glimpses covering him. 
[01:39.86]I wrote in the review of the book that I did about oneof those kind of glimpses. 
[01:45.40]But to really see it and hear it in his own voice kind of page after page is striking. 
[01:50.03]And it is a burden that you could tell he still carries with him today and seems to be sorting through in this book.
[01:55.56]And, in fact, you -- I think you said in your review the book reads in a way like an extended therapy session for him.
[02:01.26]Yes, I kind of felt that way, yes, in the sense that it can be a little bit self-contradictory. 
[02:05.94]It kind of doubles back on itself.
[02:07.49]On the one hand, you think, hey, if he had given himself a little bit more time and a little bit more distance, 
[02:11.94]it would have been a more rational book, maybe a better argued book. 
[02:15.68]But there is a power and an emotion to writing it when he did. 
[02:20.01]You know, it's really -- it does read like a therapy session at times.
[02:24.21]And you write not only the contradiction in himself, the contradictory views of other people. 
[02:27.85]On the one hand, he praises President Obama for being decisive, for being...
[02:33.05]Courageous.
[02:34.36]... courageous, bold to make the decision on Osama bin Laden, 
[02:38.04]but then on the other hand, as we just heard, really being hard on him for his handling of Afghanistan.
[02:42.84]Yes.
[02:43.54]And that's -- I thought that that was an example of an argument that he doesn't quite deliver as well as he should on. 
[02:48.83]You know, he criticizes the president for not believing in the strategy, 
[02:52.76]but also concedes that it was a courageous move to back the surge and that it was a politically unpopular move.
[02:58.66]So it's not completely rational to me. If the president doesn't believe in it, why did he do it? 
[03:03.03]And part of what I kind of wondered was, I mean, it seemed at times that Gates felt like the president -- 
[03:09.96]his frustration with the president is that the president doesn't feel the same passion, the same sort of sense of obligation, 
[03:14.41]the all sort of consuming guilt at times, and that therefore he must be missing something.
[03:21.83]And Gates, of course, had spent a lot of time or time when he could with the troops themselves, when he would go over there.
[03:27.22]Certainly, yes, and certainly spent almost every night of his tenure as secretary of defense writing condolence letters, 
[03:32.89]which he -- a task he took with great seriousness.
[03:35.68]You also write at one point in your view, you said you can't imagine between President Obama and President George W. Bush two more different men. 
[03:45.29]What does he say about President Bush?
[03:46.98]You know, he's very complimentary of President Bush, at least as my recollection of it.
[03:51.46]He does concede that when he joins the Bush administration, 
[03:54.74]President Bush has been president for six years, and that that is, you know, a different mind-set. 
[04:00.53]But he is very -- he's very quick to praise President Bush's decisiveness and his passion, particularly with regard to the Iraqi surge.
[04:08.94]He describes him as sort of having no second thoughts on that surge, nor any second thoughts on the Iraq war overall. 
[04:14.47]And that's something that I think Gates finds commendable.
[04:20.40]Congress, he is very tough on. Is that just from having to go testify as often as he did?
[04:24.70]I think so, and just sort of the divisive political nature of Congress today. 
[04:29.88]You know, I think he longs for a day of greater bipartisanship.
[04:34.35]But I think part of it is just his own personal frustration that he is so engaged in these wars. 
[04:38.51]And I think he is just frustrated with Congress that they don't feel the same. 
[04:43.68]Again, they don't feel the same passion, the same commitment that he does.
[04:46.92]And his really tough comment about Vice President Biden, that he has been wrong on every foreign policy.
[04:53.21]For four decades.
[04:54.10]For four decades.
[04:54.70]Yes, it's interesting on that, though.
[04:57.59]This is where I -- the therapy session stuff comes in, that he's very critical of Biden on that. 
[05:02.71]He's very critical of Biden for suggesting that he sowed discord between the president and the uniformed military by sort of subjecting the president to Chinese water torture, 
[05:12.87]as he calls it, that you can't trust your generals.
[05:17.78]But then, at the end of the book, he also kind of comes around and says, well, on Iraq, 
[05:20.82]there really wasn't that much of a difference between my position and Biden's position, 
[05:24.35]you know, maybe 10,000 troops, and that I should have done more to build bridges, rather than be as defensive as I was.
[05:31.14]Finally, Greg Jaffe, how does he judge himself?
[05:33.35]You know, that's a good question.
[05:35.69]I think he sort of -- that's why I thought he is kind of wrestling through it. 
[05:39.18]I mean, he is critical of himself in the book. And it's written in his voice. 
[05:42.86]He didn't use a ghostwriter. And it's clear. 
[05:45.35]And I mean that in a good way, in a sense that it sounds like him and it feels like him.
[05:49.87]And I think he is still wrestling through with that. 
[05:52.61]I think he's very proud of the Iraq surge, but I think he does feel a certain amount of guilt at the suffering that the war has caused.
[06:01.47]Greg Jaffe with The Washington Post.
[06:03.67]And, as we mentioned, we will be talking with former Defense Secretary Robert Gates next Tuesday.
[06:09.11]Thank you.
[06:09.66]Yes, thank you.