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What strikes me about Justine's story is also the fact that if you Google her name today,
贾丝婷的故事最触动我的是你如今若在谷歌去搜她的名字，
this story covers the first 100 pages of Google results -- there is nothing else about her.
搜索结果的开头100页都是说她这个故事的--没有任何其他关于她的信息。
In your book, you mention another story of another victim who actually got taken on by a reputation management firm,
你的书还提到了另一个故事，一名受害者找到了一家名誉管理公司，这家公司帮她打造博文，
and by creating blogs and posting nice, innocuous stories about her love for cats and holidays and stuff,
上传了很多暖心的文章，关于她如何爱猫，如何度假等等，
managed to get the story off the first couple pages of Google results, but it didn't last long.
成功地把原来的故事挤出了谷歌搜索结果的前几页，不过好景不长。
A couple of weeks later, they started creeping back up to the top result. Is this a totally lost battle?
几星期后，旧故事又重新回到了搜索结果前列。这是不是意味着我们彻底没戏了？
You know, I think the very best thing we can do, if you see a kind of unfair or an ambiguous shaming,
我认为，我们现在能做的，就是一旦发现有人在信口开河地乱喷，
is to speak up, because I think the worst thing that happened to Justine was that nobody supported her
就应该大声指出来，因为我认为对贾丝婷来说最不幸的是没有人为她说话，
like, everyone was against her, and that is profoundly traumatizing,
似乎每个人都跟她对着干，这是最让人寒心的，
to be told by tens of thousands of people that you need to get out.
成千上万的人让你滚出去。
But if a shaming happens and there's a babble of voices, like in a democracy,
如果语言攻击发生时，有不同的声音在表达不同的观点，就像民主似的，
where people are discussing it, I think that's much less damaging.
人人都能发言讨论，这样的话，杀伤力会小很多。
So I think that's the way forward, but it's hard, because if you do stand up for somebody, it's incredibly unpleasant.
我们应该往这个方向努力，当然这很难，因为你一旦站出来为某人说话，下场可能会非常惨。
So let's talk about your experience, because you stood up by writing this book.
那我们说说你的经验。你挺身而出，还写了这本书。
By the way, it's mandatory reading for everybody, okay?
顺便说一句，大家都去读读这本书，好吗？
You stood up because the book actually puts the spotlight on shamers.
为什么说你挺身而出，因为你将聚光灯打在了那些喷子身上。
And I assume you didn't only have friendly reactions on Twitter.
我觉得你在推特上没少挨骂吧。
It didn't go down that well with some people.
有些人确实不怎么喜欢我。
I mean, you don't want to just concentrate -- because lots of people understood, and were really nice about the book.
我是说，你不想仅仅关注--很多人都能明白，都很接受这本书。
But yeah, for 30 years I've been writing stories about abuses of power,
过去30年来我一直在写关于滥用职权的报道，
and when I say the powerful people over there in the military, or in the pharmaceutical industry, everybody applauds me.
当我曝光军队里位高权重之人，或者医药行业里只手遮天之人，人人都鼓掌叫好。
As soon as I say, "We are the powerful people abusing our power now," I get people saying, "Well you must be a racist too."
直到我说：“你我也是有权之人，我们也在滥用权力”时，有人就说：“你肯定也是个种族主义者。”
