Hello everyone and welcome back to our new segment New Zealand under the Microscope.

Kiaora!

Kiaora Simon. We talked about all these basics about Maori cultural traits and customs. And in this episode, let's dig a little deeper into the past of the Maori people. So in history, obviously, I think it's probably kind of comparable in a way to, let's say, other native people like Native American also went through colonization and all that, one major point that I've heard is a treaty of Waitangi?

Yes, Waitangi.

Waitangi. So what is that about?

Well very, very briefly about three hundred years ago, the Europeans settlers, they discovered New Zealand and they decided they like the place so they thought that they would move in. The Maori people, while some of them, some of the Iwi wanted to trade, they wanted to do commerce, many of them didn't want the colonists taking their land.

Yeah, that's understandable.

Yeah. So there were a number of skirmishes, small fights, and it actually eventuated and turned into a land war, so a war between the British soldiers and the Maori people.

So it was like a fall out war.

Yes, yeah. Basically a series of battles between different Iwi tribes or tribes and the British forces. Now the Maori did not fight like the British, so the British, you know they had a lot of organized structure; the Maori more into guerrilla warfare. So trench warfare, guerrilla warfare which the British had never experienced before. So both sides were taking huge casualties while the British had better weapons, the Maori had ownership of the land. They knew the land, they knew...

Geographical, everything.

And so in the end, they both decided they couldn't carry on fighting.

So they signed a treaty.

Yeah. So they drafted the treaty of Waitangi and um, it was produced and then it was taken around all the different tribes. Some, most of the tribes signed up. There was a few tribes which refused, one of those tribes, Tohoy, even today, some of them, some of the more radical members, they deny the rightful governance of the British of the crown of Europeans. Even today, there's, there's still several tribes which officially do not recognize the state or certain radical members, they don't recognize our government because their ancestors didn't sign the treaty of Waitangi. The actual treaty itself, it was really good in principle, like the idea of it, was good.

Yeah.

However in reality this wasn't the perfect solution. The English and the Tereo, Maori versions were different, slightly different.

Oh yes that's what I heard. So this huge dispute and they attributed all to translation errors or translation problems.

Translation and cultural, but yes you're right.

So basically, obviously the native Maori people they had a different understanding of the treaty.

Yep. You're right, so the British version from their side, they thought they were getting New Zealand and they would govern the Maori as their subjects. The Maori considered from the agreement that they were going to be sharing the land. So the Maori didn't have ownership. They didn't have the concept of ownership.

Ohhhhh~

They were just simply welcoming the Europeans to come and cohabit the space with them.

Oh, that would turn into a bit of a disaster. So going from that part of history, what about now? And now the interaction of the Maori people as Maori descent, or people Maori ethnic group, they obviously intermarried. What is the interaction with the European population right now? Is it, are they getting along well or are there still conflicts.

Oh I mean, there's still dispute and there's still some very rightful unhappiness. But generally speaking, the country is, the Maori and the European sides get along well. In the previous talk I mentioned that I lived in a town called the Portki. At that time I was working for the local government and we would have public meetings primarily in Tereo, in Maori language and then it was translated back into English.

Wow. So you must had a lot of interactions with the local Maori tribes.

Yes. Yes. So the tribes that we dealt with when I was working there, there were several of them. There was a phoktohiawhich was the main one in the Portki and then you had Natinawa and then we also had Tohoy. And I mentioned Tohoy before, that refused the crown. And so sometimes we would have some quite interesting experiences with the Tohoy leaders because they have a bit more of a staunch, a bit more of strong attitude.

So when you're talking with them, are you talking to chiefs of tribes or do they now have like a more modern way of governing themselves, more like local council for example.

Exactly right. So they've taken on legal structures similar to a local council and they called trust boards or Runagah.

So it's more modernized in a way.

Correct. So you have a chairman and board, and you'll also have you know the, so you got executives, CEO and then staff.

I see.

And a lot of these tribes or today equivalent, they have to do Runagah, the trust boards, a lot of them are quite successful business units. So they're no longer just tribal, but they are business units, and those businesses, the profits in most cases end up going and benefiting their people.

Sounds like a good plan.

They provide social services or provide education health care services. Sometimes the, in many cases, the members of that tribe will get a dividend from their commercial activities.

OK. So this is about Maori people trying to make life better for their own people. What about government in general? First of all, do you have a percentage of governmental officials that are Maori descent?

Yeah of course. I couldn't tell you of the top of my head the percentage of officials who were Maori, but it's certainly not uncommon to meet officials who are Maori. And we've got a ministry of sort of, it's called punakocori, it's a ministry for Maori relations and so they task with a range of things. But they look into how to support Maori communities around the country, how to promote the culture, but also how to keep the Maori language alive.

A little bit of research I've done says that there was a period of time the Maori language and also the culture was kind of facing some challenges and then also that the population was going down. But now I think it's going back up again.

Yeah, I remember when I was in primary school and middle school, people were saying oh Maori language is going to become extinct, is gonna die out.

Yeah.

And then there was a quite a big movement to try and get more people learning Tereo, learning Maori. So today a primary school level, an elementary school level, students have to learn some basic Maori.

Okay, so that's becoming compulsory.

That's becoming compulsory, more adults becoming interested in the language and trying to learn it.

Does sound interesting. So you said that was primary school level, is compulsory.

Correct.

Secondary education, if you want to learn, is there an option?

Oh in many schools, they will provide the option. The biggest problem is that there aren't very many fluent Tereo speakers. So actually getting teachers to teach the language...

Is difficult.

I mean, when I lived in the Portki, I was attending Tereo lessons, Maori lessons, but now I live in another city with this far less Maori people.

So it's more difficult for you to find.

Well I can't find a Maori teacher. I've been looking for a Maori teacher but I cannot find one.

But they do have written language, right? It's not just a purely spoken language.

Well traditionally, it was not written, so traditionally it was a spoken language. So the stories, the history of the people were told through songs and some carvings.

It's all verbal.

Yeah. But today, yes, you're right. There is a Romanized version. I am not totally like you would expect with English language, but you can more or less read.

Yeah, I guess that's why we are able to, last time you said Kiaora. That's why we were able to spell it. That was Romanized version of it. So by the way, as a traveler, if I travel to New Zealand again or some of our listeners they want to travel to New Zealand and they want to experience Maori culture, are there any specific places or tours that or towns that you can go and do that?

Of course. Um, as we mentioned in the previous recording, Rotorua is the most famous one, it's a bit more touristy. Personally I recommend that my friends when they visit New Zealand, they go to Whakatane. It's a small city. It's about one hour drive from Rotorua. It's got a very strong Maori culture. It's very authentic Maori culture.

The town's name is Maori, isn't it?

The town's name is Maori, yeah. But there's a lot of communities, a lot of Maori settlements around the country. Each is slightly different. So we talked about the different tribes, so each tribe has its own variant on Maori culture. There isn't a standard one Maori culture.

I don't understand that, but for traveler wouldn't that be a bit difficult? Because would you say that some of these tribes they are open to visitors because you can't just be a visitor and go in and say, oh I'm really interested in your culture. I want to explore.

Why not?

And people would not find that weird?

No no no no. Well they might do, but I'm sure a vast majority would be honored. I mean, I come across quite, well, very European. And when I moved back to New Zealand, I became genuinely interested in Maori language and culture. And I found that people, Maori people that I met, when I tried to speak Tereo to them, they were very flattered, they are very honored. When I showed an interest in Maori culture, they invited me to visit their Murai, which is their sacred meeting area.

Meeting house?

Yeah, they shared their culture. They invited me to eat with them. They were really pleased to be able to share their culture, they are proud of their culture.

I guess for a lot of the more homogeneous cultures, ancient cultures, it is the same. It is like with Chinese if you actually make the effort of learning Chinese and trying to speak Chinese to a Chinese, then we would feel kind of, we would warm up to you a lot more.

Good good. So let's try to end this advanced episode with a few Maori phrases.

Ok. So I want to say Kapai, which is very good.

Very good.

So for example, uh if you said, Kiaora, very well and you pronounced it very well, maybe try?

Kiaora?

Oh! Kapai Kapai! Very good.

Kiaora is just hello?

No. Well, it's hello, but it also can mean goodbye and it can also mean very good. So...

Very versatile, so Kiaora, it's very, if you learn that, you pretty much get three phrases done.

Yeah. So often when I was working in the government, some would give a talk or a speech. And if people agreed with the speech they would go, ah, Kiaora, Kiaora. Yeah. And then a one probably a bit more cute, you could say Paki Paki, which means to clap, to applause.

Ah~~~ Is that because of the sound?

I don't know.

In Chinese we sometimes say Pakipaki.

Pakipaki, yeah. And then we've talked a little bit about foods today. Then we've talked about the hangi.

In the previous episode.

On previous episodes. But of course they'll be listening to this episode because they thought the previous episode was so good, was so Karpi. So food is kai.

We'll have some kai.

Have some kai, yeah. Kai is usually, is often used in English. It's become sort of absorbed as a New Zealand English.

Oh, so if I say this to like someone of European descent...

Have some kai, yeah, they would...

The New Zealander would understand. Wow.

So it's become a mainstream word.

Um, so I tell you what, let's wrap this up. We can go and have some kai.

Kapai, kapai.

Kiaora~

Kiaora!

Thank you Simon. And if you have any questions to ask about Maori culture, feel free to leave your comment in the comment section. See you next time.

Katiteh.

Bye!

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