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this is actively doing it and of willfully and of wilfully controlling it up to a point and then being made to do it on oneself,
这是主动的行为任由自己控制，直到达到某个节点然后强迫自己这样做
it's experiencing oneself as helpless in one's adult agency.
这是成人所经历的无助感
And it's humiliating and regressive um there's also there is use of a chair where victims er would be force-fed
让人感到羞愧，自我退化美军还会用一张椅子受害者绑在椅子上被迫吃东西
but then were given, apparently were given diuretics
然后给他们吃利尿剂和泻药
and laxatives so that they shit and upon themselves in the chair, again a,
这样他们就在自己身上排泄他们要坐在椅子上
the impression that one ought to be in control one normally can be in control but one isn't in control
在人们的印象中，应该控制的人在一般情况下可以控制的，却无法控制
and that one somehow is colluding in one's lack of self control here.
因此失去了控制力人就会招供
Er. I'm gonna, I'm gonna end on that point er um but I want to just suggest that the broadly stoic view
我要结束演讲了我只是想说，广义上的禁欲主义观点
still leaves a torture victim it seems to me vulnerable to using oneself against oneself
在我看来，仍然会让受到折磨的受害者在最丢脸的事情上
in the most degrading ways and to see that as a kind of mastery
对自我利用感到悲痛而把它看成是某种控制
just because it's active use of one's will is a perversion of what mastery is about
只是因为是对个人意志的积极利用这是对控制的一个误读
and so in this sense I think that stoic armour isn't fully impervious and perhaps not surprisingly,
从这个意义来看，我认为禁欲的盔甲不是百毒不侵的，也许不出意外地
stoicism's more durable lesson maybe in averting the temptation to inflict torture
从禁欲主义可以学到更有价值的东西可能是转移施加酷刑的诱惑
rather than in learning in a bullet-proof way how to endure it so let me stop there.
而不是用严密地方式学习如何忍受酷刑，我的演讲到此结束
