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You know, the perpetrators aren't these
肇事者不是
monsters who crawl out of the swamp
那些从沼泽爬出来的妖怪，
and come into town and do their nasty business
来到城镇做些坏事，
and then retreat into the darkness.
然后撤退回黑暗。
That's a very naive notion, right?
这是很单纯的想法，对吗？
Perpetrators are much more normal than that,
肇事者比这更正常，更普通。
and everyday than that.
现在的问题是，
So the question is, what are we doing here
我们到底在
in our society and in the world?
这社会和世界做着什么？
What are the roles of various institutions
不同的机构在生产施虐男人
in helping to produce abusive men?
这个过程中的角色是什么？
What's the role of religious belief systems,
信仰的角色是什么？
the sports culture, the pornography culture,
运动文化，色情文化，
the family structure, economics, and how that intersects,
家庭机构，经济，这些都如何影响？
and race and ethnicity and how that intersects?
还有种族有何影响？
How does all this work?
这全部是如何运作？
And then, once we start making those kinds of connections
然后，当我们开始思考这些连接性，
and asking those important and big questions,
和问些重要的宏观问题，
then we can talk about how we can be transformative,
我们才可以探讨如何改变。
in other words, how can we do something differently?
换句话说，我们如何运作些不同的东西？
How can we change the practices?
我们如何改掉行为？
How can we change the socialization of boys
我们要如何改变男生们的交际？
and the definitions of manhood that lead to these current outcomes?
还有男人的定义如何造成现在的成果？
These are the kind of questions that we need
这些都是我们必须问的问题
to be asking and the kind of work that we need to be doing,
和我们必须做的工作，
but if we're endlessly focused on what women are doing
但是如果我们不断的关注女人在做什么，在想什么
and thinking in relationships or elsewhere,
然后再去考虑这些事件，
we're not going to get to that piece.
我们无法解决问题。
Now, I understand that a lot of women
现在，我明白很多女人
who have been trying to speaking out about these issues,
已经在尝试说出这问题，
today and yesterday and for years and years,
在今天，昨天，还有很多年很多年，
often get shouted down for their efforts.
但是她们的努力常常被压制。
They get called nasty names like "male-basher"
她们得了不雅的名称，如“攻击男人者”
and "man-hater,"
和“憎恨男人者”
and the disgusting and offensive "feminazi." Right?
然后恶心和厌恶的女人主义，对吗？
And you know what all this is about?
然后你这到这是为了什么吗？
It's called kill the messenger.
这叫抹杀我们的“信使”。
It's because the women who are standing up
就是因为女人抗护她们自己的时候，
and speaking out for themselves and for other women
在为其他女人
as well as for men and boys, it's a statement to them
和其他男人和小男孩说话的时候，
to sit down and shut up, keep the current system in place,
这就是在命令她们停下，闭嘴。这就是在维护现在的系统，
because we don't like it when people rock the boat.
因为不喜欢当有人砸船。
We don't like it when people challenge our power.
我们不喜欢有人对抗我们的权力。
You'd better sit down and shut up, basically.
你最好坐下来和闭嘴。
And thank goodness that women haven't done that.
很幸运的，女人没那么做。
Thank goodness that we live in a world
很幸运的，我们存在一个很多女人领袖
where there's so much women's leadership that can counteract that.
可以互动的世界。
But one of the powerful roles that men can play in this work
但是有一个角色我们男人可以做的，
is that we can say some things
那就是我们也可以说些什么
that sometimes women can't say,
女人不能说的东西。
or, better yet, we can be heard saying some things
更好的是，别人可以听到我们说一些
that women often can't be heard saying.
别人不愿意听女人说的话。
Now, I appreciate that that's a problem. It's sexism.
现在，我很珍惜这个是一个问题。这是性别歧视。
But it's the truth. And so one of the things that I say to men,
但这就是事实。然后有件事我时常对男人说，
and my colleagues and I always say this,
我和我的同事常这么说，
is we need more men who have the courage and the strength
是我们需要更多有勇气和力量的男人，
to start standing up and saying some of this stuff,
站起来说这些问题，
and standing with women and not against them
然后与女人并肩作战而不是对抗她们，
and pretending that somehow this is
或当作这是个
a battle between the sexes and other kinds of nonsense.
性别之间的战斗或其他无稽的东西。
We live in the world together.
我们活在同一个世界里。
And by the way, one of the things that really bothers me
然而，最令我头痛的一件事是
about some of the rhetoric against feminists and others
那些花言巧语反对女权运动。
who have built the battered women's
将那些在世界各地帮助被虐女人
and rape crisis movements around the world
提倡反强奸的活动的女性
is that somehow, like I said, that they're anti-male.
讲成好比她们在对抗男性。
What about all the boys who are profoundly affected
想想看那些受负面影响的小男孩，
in a negative way by what some adult man is doing
受年纪大的男人们对
against their mother, themselves, their sisters?
他们的妈妈，姐姐和他们做出不良行为？
What about all those boys?
这些小男孩怎样呢？
What about all the young men and boys
这些年轻的小男孩
who have been traumatized by adult men's violence?
受到男人暴行影响所受到的创伤呢？
You know what? The same system that produces
你知道吗？造就虐待女人的
men who abuse women produces men who abuse other men.
和造就虐待男人的是同一个系统。
