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The other speculation with a little more time 45 seconds, why psychological torture is used,
还有一点时间 45秒吧另一种推断就是，心理折磨被用来
is and, and this is not, this is just my opinion, I think that the experts, some, it's already been referred to
这并不仅仅是我的观点我认为很多专家也引用过这一观点
how the FBI maybe the paper that was mentioned that is available here,
在这里的论文也提到了这一个观点
the people who do interrogations say torture doesn't work they say getting trust, getting alliance works a lot better.
联邦调查局的审问人员说折磨不起作用，他们认为得到信任和他们组成联盟更有作用
The FBI says that, experts in the CIA say it.
联邦调查局这么说，中央情报局也这么说
So the question is: Why is torture used?
那么问题是，为什么还用酷刑呢?
Why is the abuse used?
为什么还施虐呢?
And I think it think it's used in ways that Zimbardo's study in Stanford prison says,
我认为会使用酷刑是因为津巴多在斯坦福的监狱里所做的研究表明
because when you have power over somebody, you, you can become perverted by it and
因为你有权力控制他们你可以因为权力变得反常
after 911, I think this country had a need for revenge and a need to avenge itself and psychologically
我认为911之后，这个国家需要报仇需要报复本身，需要心理上的复仇
even if we could get information that we needed by um, by alliance and by the er engagement with the er with the detainee,
即使我们可以通过结成同盟通过和扣押犯交流来获取情报
the effort was instead to, to punish them, to show our strength by asserting ourselves over other people.
但我们需要惩罚他们，要表现出我们对别人的权力，宣扬我们的力量
So I think we come back to some maybe irrational ways
所以我觉得，这些方法可能不理性
but from a psychological point of view makes some sense to me.
但是从心理学的角度来看在我看来，是说得通的
Um, ok I have to, start let me tell you the story, that there because it shows how this the effects of torture sometimes are not seen.
让我告诉你们一个故事它说明了折磨的后果是看不到
