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Who am I really? What is reality for that matter? In fact, what is matter, or time, or cause and effect?
我究竟是谁？事实究竟是什么？事物、时间、因果究竟是什么？
These are old questions asked and answered again and again by philosophers and scientists.
这些问题，从古至今，哲学家和科学家发问了一次又一次。
They were still asking them over the weekend at a Nature of Reality Conference at Colorado State University.
而本周末，科罗拉多州立大学召开的真实性会议又再次发问。
They talked about quantum theory, relativity and the new physics,
会上，他们讨论了量子学理论、相对论、新物理学、
discoveries in atomic science that cast new light on old questions or maybe just add to the list.
原子科学的诸多发现对以前各种问题的启发和新发现。
One speaker was Fritchoff Kapra. A few years ago he wrote The Tao of Physics,
一位讲者名为卡普拉。几年前，他写了《物理学之道》。
a book which linked the findings of modern science with ancient eastern philosophies.
这本书将现代科学的发现与古代东方哲学联系在一起。
It set off a wave of interest in how our most common notions about reality break down in the world of the very small.
这本书谈久了我们对现实最常见的观念是如何在微观世界中分解的。
Let's talk about an electron which is sort of, you know, the smallest entity know.
我们可以讨论一下电子这种几乎是最小事物。
And we have the tendency of picturing it somewhat like a grain of sand.
我们可能会将它以图片形式呈现，就像对待一粒沙那样。
Well, this is very wrong. It's not an isolated entity.
但这是非常错误的做法，因为电子并不是与世隔绝的个体。
It's not a grain of sand. It cannot be said to exist even in a certain place at a definite time.
电子不是一粒沙，所以我们不能说电子可以在固定时间出现在某个地方。
It's a sort of, you know, very nebulous entity seemingly which requires a whole new set of concepts and ideas to be described.
电子是很朦胧的存在，需要一整套新的观念来对它进行描述。
What emerged in the last fifteen years is that the new world view that came out of modern physics is in fact not limited to physics,
过去15年来出现的势头是：从现代物理学中生发出的新世界观其实并没有囿于物理学，
but is emerging now also in the other sciences, in biology, in psychology, in the social sciences.
而是在其他科学中出现，比如生物学、心理学、社会科学。
And it is best, it is best described by calling it a systems view. Could you give us an example?
最好将其称之为系统观。您能举个例子吗？
Let's talk about medicine, for instance.
就拿药来举例吧。
Conventional Western medicine is based on Descartes' view of the human body as a machine, in fact, as a clock-work.
传统的西方药学是基于卡普拉对人类是及其的观点的，其实就是理解为发条装置一样。
And when a clock doesn't function, you look for the single part that has broken down and you, by an act of intervention, you replace that part.
而当发条不再运转的时候，我们就会寻找坏的部分，而我们会采取干预措施，换掉这个部分。
This is what doctors do now, in terms of physical intervention through surgery or chemical intervention through drugs.
现在的一些医生就是这样做的：他们通过手术和化学药品的作用来进行物理干预。
The new kind of view would be seeing the human organism as an integrated whole which has physical aspects,
这种新型观点将人体组织视为一个整体，其中既有物理因素，
biological aspects, but also psychological aspects and which is imbedded in a natural environment and in a social and emotional environment.
也有生物因素、心理因素。我们的人体是置身于自然环境、社会环境和情感环境中的。
Now going back to physics for one minute, what do we see on the atomic level that gets us to that same place? Nothing.
现在，我们暂时回到物理学来，在原子水平上，有没有类似的东西呢？没有这样的物体。
Physics cannot be used as the basis for the new world view.
物理学是不能作为这种新世界观的基础的。
You cannot understand a living organism in terms of physics alone.
你不能只凭物理学来理解一个活生生的机体。
Of course, it does satisfy the laws of physics, because it is also,
当然了，机体确实符合物理学原理，
you know, made of physical constituents like molecules and atoms.
因为机体是由一些物理部件组成的，比如分子和原子。
But in order to understand life, and therefore in order to understand health, you have to have a broader framework.
为了理解生活和健康，就必须要有更为广阔的框架。
Could you give just a couple of examples?
您能举几个例子吗？
This shift from the part to the whole was maybe the central development in quantum theory
从部分到整体的转变可能是来量子理论的主要发展，在量子理论中，
when physicists recognized that subatomic particles cannot be seen as isolated entities,
物理学家认识到，亚原子粒子不是与世隔绝的物体，
but rather have to be seen as interconnections in a web of relationships.
而是与外界有相互联系的。
The other one, a very dramatic development, was Einstein's discovery that mass is nothing but a form of energy.
另一个巨大的进步是爱因斯坦的发现，即质量是一种能量。
Mass does not measure a certain material substance but measures activity or process,
质量是无法衡量某种特定的物质的，只能衡量活动或者某种进程，
and therefore a very dramatic shift from thinking in terms of substance and structure to thinking in terms of process.
因此我们从对物质和结构的思考极大地转变为对进程的思考。
It seems to me that there are hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people on college campuses,
在我看来，很多大学校园的学生都会参加很多会议，
going to conferences who are utterly fascinated by implications of some connection between the way we view the cosmos,
并深深沉迷于物理学与下属事物之间的关系，
between philosophy, between religion and physics.
比如我们对宇宙、哲学、宗教的看法。
But most of these people and most of their ideas in the mainstream society are considered somewhat on the fringe.
但这些人中的大多数以及主流社会中的大多数看法都是边缘化的。
Why is that? Einstein was very much considered on the fringe.
为什么会这样呢？爱因斯坦却被认为是边缘化的。
Beethovan was considered on the fringe. Mozart was considered on the fringe.
贝多芬也是边缘化的，莫扎特也是边缘化的。
This always happens with new creative ideas, and the world view that emerged from modern physics
而发生这样的事情的时候，我们却是带着创造性新观点的，带着从现代物理学中生发出的世界观的，
is really something radically new and is something very disturbing.
这种观念既是新的，也是让人困扰的。
What is the thought that is most uncomfortable?
什么样的观点最让人不舒服呢？
Even more disturbing to physicists than to people outside of science is the fact that there are no well defined isolated objects,
与非科学界的人相比，物理学家更为困扰的是：关于与世隔绝的物体，
that we are all imbedded in a network of relationships where what you call an object depends very much how you look at it.
我们并没有好的界定，我们都囿于关系的网络中，通过一个物体的外观来看待它。
Furthermore, that this network is not static, but is in continual process.
而且，这种关系的网络也不是静态的，而是持续的过程。
So it is the relativity and the impermanence of existence.
而相对论和无常。
Now this is very disturbing, because it leads you to recognize the impermanence of your own existence,
这让我们身为困扰，因为这会让我们认识到自己存在的无常性，
the illusion that we are a well defined, you know, isolated self that we have a well defined, isolated ego.
让我们有一种错觉，以为自己是一个经过界定的隔绝存在，一个与世隔绝的自我。
And this is very disturbing to many people. It is not disturbing to people typically in spiritual traditions.
这让很多人颇为困扰，尤其让有传统精神观念的人颇为困扰。
To Buddhists, for instance, this is the very foundation of Buddist thinking and Buddhist living.
比如，对于佛教徒来说，这是佛教思想和佛教生活的根基所在。
But to most Westerners, it is extremely disturbing. Physicist Fritchoff Kapra heads the Elmwood Institute in Berkeley, California.
但对大多数西方人来说，这很让人困扰。物理学家卡普拉是加州伯克利榆木研究所的负责人。
